Welcome to Week #1!

3/2/2022

Welcome Gentlemen!
I hope that this idea will work and that we will all get something out of the book and each others comments and replies.
Right off the top, please be sure to read the introduction. It is very short, but also very poignant. The focus is not being the men we should be, despite our strong desire to be. Do not overlook this! This has been very meaningful to me, especially, over the last little while. To paraphrase Paul - I do what I don't want to do, and I don't do what I want to do. If you really let that sink in, it is a helpless condition - but one many of us share. On page 6, the quoted scripture at the end from the Message version kind of kidney punches me. It is so clear and highlights one of my own frustrations.
I would also like to point out Noland's distinguishing of 'do' and 'be' on the next page: "Do is an action which we start and stop, while be is a state we are in, or a reality, an "actuality". This is a great way to distinguish the difference between the two. It isn't a play on words - it is a way to make us more conscious of what state we are currently in - are we being, or doing when it comes to our spiritual walk?
In the first chapter, on page 14, Noland tell about a friend who names a condition "slot-machine faith" - a very appropriate name. I have had a few guys randomly email as tell me that they have screwed up their relationships with their children, and wanted to know how to get it back. I gave them advice on what I thought they had to do, and asked them to let me know how it turns out...they never email back. Did they forget? Not likely. Chances are they were unwilling to follow the difficult, humbling, self-sacrificing advice they received. They wanted a 'slot-machine' fix.
I don't want to steal anyone else's thunder, since I have the advantage of being the first to comment on this chapter, but there is one more nugget of wisdom I would like to point out: On page 17, Noland succinctly says, "We can only become great at what we apply." For example, I love hockey. I watch almost all of the Leaf games on TV and I have coached my son's teams for 10+ years. I understand the game very well. I didn't, however, as matter of finances, play the game (apart from road hockey) until I turned 30. Even then, it was only ever shinny. Despite all my knowledge of hockey, was I great at it? Absolutely not - because I didn't apply that knowledge enough to become great. I did apply that knowledge to baseball and considered making a career of it. Knowledge is not enough. We have to apply it!
I am eager to hear what you guys all thought of this chapter, and what stood out to you.
Stay REAL!

18 Comments

Shawn Van De Visch

5/2/2022 08:18:21 pm

Hi brothers, I started reading this with my 15yr. old son. We have only just scratched the surface in talking about it, but we are reading it together - so that is at least a start.
I love the quote on page 14 - "For all the issues and crises that create our problems, Christ alone is the Solution and He alone is the Prescription for our pain." - and then the question: "Will we allow Him to reach into the recesses of our wretchedness and redeem ever last drop of our humanity?"
O, how I struggle with surrender - I want to fight to get back on the right track or try to do what I can to 'be a better Christian'. But it all starts with surrendering to my Lord - to recognize Him as the Solution to every crises and problem. And then He inevitably walks me through it.
Another quote that struck me was on page 18: "Jesus never practices tell-and-go, but show and tell. He was consistently inviting His followers inside what He was doing." What a relief that Jesus is already doing what He is calling us into. I don't need to worry so much, when He calls me to something new for me - because it's not new for Him.
Blessings brothers - Shawn

Brad

6/2/2022 05:43:21 pm

Shawn, I resonate greatly with your struggle to surrender! Why is this such a hard thing to do?! It frustrates me to no end that it can be so difficult to stop sinning - especially when we know full well we are! - and just surrender to Him. Hang on, brother!!

Awreck

6/2/2022 03:00:21 pm

I feel much as Shawn does here "O how I struggle with surrender"
I've been a Christian for well over forty years yet i feel like Im only really coming into what that means, recently. I can't seem to get out of my own head... Christ has asked us to do what is at once both the easiest thing and the most difficult thing to do... SURRENDER.
Could be easier than to give up? Wave the white flag and say "I can't do this"...?
Well I guess because of WHAT we must give up, we find it so hard to do (especially as men). We must give up CONTROL and control involves our pride and even our identity. So what i have found is that i my head, I think I'm doing okay with surrendering. But I need to get out of my own head and delve into my heart and realize that THAT is where I must truly surrender... and I honestly think that there are a few corners of that stronghold that Im holding onto. [Robert will get onto that in a few chapter].
So i am seeing that i have been a lazy Christian, perhaps playing that slot machine of faith but his simple line on pg 17 "Our sense of getting good at anything comes through commitment coupled with experience"
Maybe I didn't think of it as getting good at 'being' a Christian - not in a "works based" line of thinking but in the being sense.
I am a Christian but am I BEING a Christian.
Im not just a Sunday Christian but Im not necessarily seven days a week either. Which is a part of why I am interested in this study. To engage myself with brothers and with our Fathers Word - to get off the couch.
sorry if this rambled - i just kinda type as i think and don't do much editing..
E-

6/2/2022 05:49:55 pm

Man, you have hit the nail on the head with the thought that giving up control involves our pride! I have discovered that every single sin we have comes down to pride as the root. And yet, what do we have, what can we do that is worthy of us having pride?!? Many of us have what is known as a "darling" sin - that sin we say we want gone, but deep in our hearts we don't want to let it go, because it is so entrenched in us. Like you say, a few corners of the stronghold that we are holding onto. How difficult we make life for ourselves!

Ian Wilson link

7/2/2022 12:02:21 pm

Well here we are, Brad. The word "surrender" is not used per-se in the New Testament The word commonly used is "yield " There is a grace to yeildedness that we see explained in the Roman epistle where Paul exhorts us to "yield' our members as instruments of righteousness. Should this be all that difficult? If it is then, why?

Ted

9/2/2022 11:55:20 am

As the former heavyweight champion of the "whiteknucklers", I can attest to commending my life and family to the Lord. Even early on I would ask God to spot the bar; now I just get off the bench and let HIM do all the lifting PRAISE GOD

9/2/2022 12:30:51 pm

(This sounds like the way the MDM speaks and writes! ...is that you?)

9/2/2022 12:23:44 pm

That's a great question, Ian - why? I guess we each have a different path we have taken and many of have yet to fully learn how to surrender or yield completely. When it comes to sin, I have heard a saying that I will only be able to paraphrase but it says that the main reason we have recurring sin is that we aren't willing to give it up completely. If we don't give it up completely, it is still there. It is like being pregnant - you either are or you aren't. You can't be "kind of" pregnant! Similarly, with our sin - if we don't renounce it completely, it is still there and has a foothold; it will erupt at an unsuspecting moment of weakness to nab us.
This still doesn't address the why. I would think we would all have different answers to that question. I think for the sin in my life, it is usually me thinking I have a certain sin beaten, so I drop my guard a bit. Once I do that, however, like a boxer in a ring, that is what the opponent is waiting for. That is when I get an uppercut to the jaw. Do not drop your guard!

Ian Wilson

10/2/2022 12:02:53 pm

Well, Brad, the starting point of brother Nolans book was in the last two thirds of Romans Chapter 7. The secrets of victory in the battle that we are speaking of is given one Romans 6 where Paul says "yield your members to the new body of Christ" (of which we are all a part " and sin shall not have dominion over you. Was the later passage in Romans 7 written by a pre-Spirit Paul or a post Spirit Paul?

bruce davidson

20/2/2022 01:08:18 pm

i am not a control freak. but i do know of a few. letting control go for them is very difficult. for most men and myself it is the human ego that is the factor. all of us have a different paths and weaknesses.
slot machine faith does not work. i have tried slot machine faith as have others and it just does not work. it takes maturity, time, effort and letting the ego down. i have always tried to put the time into my kids so they will not fall into the same traps i did. namely no self confidence no self image. i wanted my kids to both have tons of both confidence and image.

hope i did not ramble first time using a blog

21/2/2022 12:50:07 pm

I agree that control is absolutely about the ego - and pride. Lately, I have felt numerous things begin taken away from me in many facets of my life. These were things I couldn't control and it was (is) difficult for me to accept. I need to remember that God is the one who is in control in my life - why would I need control if He has it? I am a work in progress on this one!

Gary Anderson link

20/2/2022 09:27:32 pm

Brad:
#2 On page 2 there is a comment about a term Noland uses where he defines a Christ follower in conditions, that is, whether the man has decided to "truly follow Jesus today."
Question: Would you define what that means? It sends up "red flags" when the author is telling us that he knows what a true follower is and what a true follower is not. I don't know you or your theology, but I'd like to. The intention of the book seems good, and I love the spirit of putting this, "out there" to help give a chance for the Word to work in our hearts! Thank you for your actions here, prompted no doubt by your faith, a faith I look forward to hearing more about.

21/2/2022 01:01:03 pm

I feel Noland defines that himself in the very next sentence: "...that man who by grace is living in obedience to become the man God believes him to be." I think there are a lot of nuances to this definition, as well. I always recommend we be careful when quoting authors or speakers to get their words just right, as slight variations can alter their meanings. Noland never says he "knows" what makes a true follower, he is saying this is how he defines it in his book. I don't see an issue with his definition, personally.
A great resource for this is Francis Chan's book "Not a Fan". He distinguishes between a fan of Jesus and a follower of Jesus - a world of difference! I do believe that as "seasoned" Christian men, we DO have the ability to define a true follower from a fake one - for the most part. I also believe we should reserve judgement on individuals in this area unless we have concrete examples of their beliefs or actions. Fortunately, Noland is just defining what he sees as the difference between "Christian" and "Christ follower". I must admit, I can also see a world of difference between the two.

Gary Anderson

20/2/2022 10:27:43 pm

Introduction
Noland writes: "In short, we desperately desire through our beliefs to become the man we envision God made us to be."(page 5)
So, what IS this?
From what I know (Luke18:9-14), it's not what WE envision the ideal to be, but rather, knowing that God will act according to His plan in our lives!
It's a relationship, not a performance! We CANNOT perform, ever, to a level that makes God "notice us", nor can we do so poorly that He "notices us". He loves us now and tomorrow, and we will continually sin and ask for help because that IS what fallen creatures like us do! This will change in Heaven, but only because the sinful side will be gone forever.
So, how do YOU read The Pharisee and the Tax Collector?

21/2/2022 01:15:07 pm

I totally agree that our faith is about relationship, not performance. There is nothing we can do (except profess Christ) that will gain us a spot in paradise - that is 100% a gift from God. To answer your question: "So, what IS this?", I think we need to read the entire page above that quotation, as he leads up to that statement. God didn't audibly tell me exactly who He made me to be, but I still strive to be who I think He wants me to be. The whole concept of REAL DADS came about that way. God didn't audibly tell me to start a fatherhood organization when I only had a 2 and 5 year old, but I listened to what I felt were His promptings, and here we are almost 15 years later! I do envision that this is what God wants me to do, based on His promptings. Without question, you are correct that we will continue to sin, which won't change until we reach His glory.
"Faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead." -James 2:17 (ESV)

20/2/2022 11:29:08 pm

#4 The book's Raison D'etre (reason for being)
Pg. 7, 3rd paragraph:
"I wrote it (the book) ...to know that you are not alone in your spiritual struggles, as you desire to be obedient to Christ."
Sooo....what does THAT mean? That's the reason for the book? Somehow, (judging from the accountability questions at the back of the book) it seems like he's got a much bigger agenda than that Brad, right?

21/2/2022 01:26:40 pm

I find it incredibly helpful to know that my struggles are shared by other men. I am not glad that other men have the same struggles as I do - don't get me wrong! I wish none of us did! But not being alone in my shame is some consolation because I know that I have brothers I can go to and speak with who will understand me and not condemn me. Years ago, I started a social-emotional program in the schools that would take far too long to explain here, but suffice it to say that it culminated in students realizing that they were not the only ones going through the struggles they were. They found this incredibly comforting to know they weren't alone - in fact over half the students were dealing with the same issues, but hid it from others! The relief these students felt was tangible. I know from what some of them told me that it actually saved their lives! Being an island with your struggles is a recipe for disaster! Like was mentioned before, however, we can't just take comfort that there are others who are like us, but lean on each other to improve and grow stronger in Christ. Yes, without question, we need to depend on God for our deliverance from out issues, but having other men to pray with and hold each other accountable is gold...and biblical!
His agenda is certainly bigger than that quotation, as he says in the same sentence leading up to that quotation: "I wrote it because I want to honestly inspire and encourage men to know you are not alone in your spiritual struggles, as you desire to be obedient to Christ." I love being inspired and encouraged - in fact, I need it! The accountability questions at the end seem to fall in line with his goal.
Maybe be more specific if I am missing your main thoughts, Gary, sometimes I can be thick! ;)

David J Speicher

7/4/2022 01:47:14 pm

I'm late coming to the table with comments. The joys of getting COVID over March break. Nonetheless, I promised Brad that I would contribute so here's my comment from week 1. I really like the discussion that was generated from Week 1 and seeing other guys engaging with the content. I really like how Robert Noland drives home the point that it's not about head knowledge but about becoming and being. It's all about who I am in Christ. From Ch1 several key quotes stood out to me. Pg15 "But don't just listen to God's word. You must do what it says. Otherwise, you are only fooling yourselves." Too often am I guilty of knowing God's word but not putting it into practice. This is definitely something worth striving to do. Pg17 "We can only become great at what we apply." I think of my life in general and agree that this is a great statement to live by. We must apply as much as we can in order to grow. It's one thing to know what is right and what you need to do but wisdom is knowing when to put it into practice. Finally, Pg22 "Obedience through action is crucial to our walk with Christ." Again, it's about putting what know into action, and if we don't we are living in disobedience. I think that the key is that Christ never called us to be perfect, but to be in Him as we live out our lives. We don't need to be perfect but we need to die to self daily and strive to be in Christ each day. The trick is to learn through our failures and continue putting what we know into practice so that in time we can become who Christ wants us to be.

Welcome to Week #1!

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